Harrison Weidner: I decided to try something new with the way Jack and I record and I process the episode. Not sure if it's better or worse. I'm not sold on it, but let us know what you think and that will influence what I continue to do in the future. Good stuff. Take care and enjoy.

Harrison Weidner: right. Welcome back to our tangled

Jack Weidner: to our tangled minds.

Harrison Weidner: Mary Weidner

Jack Weidner: I'm Jack Bagnato.

Harrison Weidner: nailed

Jack Weidner: Fuck you.

Harrison Weidner: that. And welcome again back to the podcast. We are officially beyond one year now, so congratulations Jack. We've made it for a year. Officially, I was hesitant

Jack Weidner: Our podcast

Harrison Weidner: before.

Jack Weidner: is old enough to drink. No.

Harrison Weidner: No.

Harrison Weidner: Maybe on a street corner, but. No. I'm proud of us. You know, you could tell I was hesitant last time about calling it a year, and it wasn't a year.

Jack Weidner: Yeah. You were really nervous about it.

Harrison Weidner: I didn't like that. But now it feels right.

Jack Weidner: Because we're over a year,

Harrison Weidner: Yeah.

Jack Weidner: right?

Harrison Weidner: You're drinking a Lacroix.

Jack Weidner: Yup. Cherry blossom flavor.

Harrison Weidner: I've never heard that one.

Jack Weidner: It's delicious.

Harrison Weidner: Mm hmm.

Jack Weidner: Yeah.

Harrison Weidner: Is it seasonal?

Jack Weidner: I don't think so, because I've been drinking them since October.

Harrison Weidner: Yeah, probably not.

Jack Weidner: But we are in cherry blossom season.

Harrison Weidner: Right. That's what I was wondering. Like,

Jack Weidner: Yeah.

Harrison Weidner: when is that? I know that's a thing.

Jack Weidner: What's new with me? I have a fun story. I don't know if you wanna keep this in the podcast.

Harrison Weidner: Yeah.

Jack Weidner: I don't

Harrison Weidner: Tell

Jack Weidner: know if

Harrison Weidner: me

Jack Weidner: it's fun, but it's certainly

Harrison Weidner: that.

Jack Weidner: a story.

Harrison Weidner: I want to hear.

Jack Weidner: So Friday I went to a fish fry. And I walked in. For those of you that don't have the visual component of this podcast right now, I have a big beard and longish hair. literally I walked in and I gave my slip to and this kid goes, Oh my God, it's Jesus. And I was like a little uncomfortable because I've said, you know, I'm not like on great terms with the Catholic Church. And I didn't want to be like, you know, like if it was a friend, I would have played it up out of, you know, like whatever. But he kept that

Harrison Weidner: No.

Jack Weidner: and then he

Harrison Weidner: You

Jack Weidner: started

Harrison Weidner: should

Jack Weidner: getting

Harrison Weidner: have said

Jack Weidner: it. I

Harrison Weidner: yes.

Jack Weidner: was like, I'm usually like, bless you, my child. And then like,

Harrison Weidner: Right.

Jack Weidner: I like, you know, do the cross or whatever,

Harrison Weidner: When

Jack Weidner: but.

Harrison Weidner: people mistake you for Jesus.

Jack Weidner: He he said they don't mistake me for Jesus. People are like, well, you know, the story of Michael's wedding, right?

Harrison Weidner: Now.

Jack Weidner: My mom, they walk out because our grandmother, my, my, my best friend got married in August and my grandmother's in the church for his wedding And she walks in with my mother and she points to the cross and says, Jack, you kind of look like him. I'm like, You

Harrison Weidner: No.

Jack Weidner: can't say that here in my town.

Harrison Weidner: Wow.

Jack Weidner: So then so this guy, so this kid, he's probably like, I don't know, 13, 14. He could

Harrison Weidner: Mm

Jack Weidner: have been

Harrison Weidner: hmm.

Jack Weidner: 50. I don't know about ages, but he he starts like telling everybody in the line and all of his friends are like, Dude, Jesus is here. That's great. And they start like high five making this huge commotion

Harrison Weidner: That's

Jack Weidner: and I

Harrison Weidner: so

Jack Weidner: don't know what to do. There was one other thing I wanted to tell you that's going on. Oh. This nonsense that we're doing with the Weidner family, this 100 push ups thing. I never knew where you got your psychosis from. You're like you're just, like, pure drive athleticism.

Harrison Weidner: I

Jack Weidner: And I

Harrison Weidner: think

Jack Weidner: never.

Harrison Weidner: it's John.

Jack Weidner: It's. It's definitely the whiteners.

Harrison Weidner: It's outside.

Jack Weidner: It's that side

Harrison Weidner: Well,

Jack Weidner: because

Harrison Weidner: no

Jack Weidner: deep

Harrison Weidner: DNA.

Jack Weidner: psychotic. But he wasn't like. His was out of OCD, almost like

Harrison Weidner: Mm hmm.

Jack Weidner: the guy had a heart attack at 36. Ditto. Was it like pain? Nose to the grindstone. He was like. This is what I do because this is what I do, which you also have that

Harrison Weidner: I'm not sure that we would have it. Like we might not remember him like that. We remember him as. You know, 50, 60, 70

Jack Weidner: That's

Harrison Weidner: years

Jack Weidner: true,

Harrison Weidner: so.

Jack Weidner: but he was pretty hardcore when he was in his fifties

Harrison Weidner: Right.

Jack Weidner: and sixties.

Harrison Weidner: So, like, he was he was pretty nuts about it.

Jack Weidner: But for me, he was diligent in the routine. And the routine was stemmed from a near-death experience at 36 because he didn't used to be like that. Because he would he he said he lived.

Harrison Weidner: Right.

Jack Weidner: You know, like

Harrison Weidner: But

Jack Weidner: he didn't.

Harrison Weidner: that's just a riff. I think that it's just a refocus of his like

Jack Weidner: Yeah,

Harrison Weidner: refocus

Jack Weidner: he was

Harrison Weidner: of his

Jack Weidner: he

Harrison Weidner: value

Jack Weidner: was an

Harrison Weidner: system.

Jack Weidner: intense person. But

Harrison Weidner: Mm

Jack Weidner: I think

Harrison Weidner: hmm.

Jack Weidner: John, like Uncle John, meaning our Uncle John backed John Francis Bagnato and

Harrison Weidner: Mm hmm.

Jack Weidner: I are also intense. Like, I think we all got some level of intensity.

Harrison Weidner: Yeah.

Jack Weidner: And I think but I think you got some level of insanity from the whiteners in

Harrison Weidner: I think

Jack Weidner: terms

Harrison Weidner: it had

Jack Weidner: of

Harrison Weidner: to have come from there.

Jack Weidner: from

Harrison Weidner: Yeah.

Jack Weidner: John because like he just was like, who wants like literally the end of February, we're talking a day that doesn't exist once. Like it only exists once every four years. He's

Harrison Weidner: One

Jack Weidner: like.

Harrison Weidner: of my favorite days, by the

Jack Weidner: You

Harrison Weidner: way.

Jack Weidner: detect, text me. Happy with that? So this is literally just us catching up, but we have to unpack this. He's just like, I just finished this February pushup challenge where we do 100 push ups a day. Who's in? Why? And then Dad responds, Oh, I already do. 66. What a weird number. Why?

Harrison Weidner: I

Jack Weidner: Who

Harrison Weidner: don't

Jack Weidner: is

Harrison Weidner: know.

Jack Weidner: doing

Harrison Weidner: What

Jack Weidner: this?

Harrison Weidner: does he do? Three sets

Jack Weidner: It's.

Harrison Weidner: of 22. I don't know. Six sets of 11. I'm not sure how he's doing

Jack Weidner: Where?

Harrison Weidner: that. A lot

Jack Weidner: I don't know where he gets this number.

Harrison Weidner: of

Jack Weidner: It

Harrison Weidner: them

Jack Weidner: was

Harrison Weidner: ask

Jack Weidner: just

Harrison Weidner: them.

Jack Weidner: a weird and it was random and great. Our cousin Grace, they included her boyfriend in what a poor, unfortunate soul getting roped

Harrison Weidner: Mm hmm.

Jack Weidner: into this. So this is just nuts. Like that. They just do this.

Harrison Weidner: Yeah,

Jack Weidner: He's

Harrison Weidner: I've.

Jack Weidner: like crazy. Uncle John's crazy. That Uncle John. We have to Uncle John's to keep you guys confused.

Harrison Weidner: But he's awesome.

Jack Weidner: They're

Harrison Weidner: Both

Jack Weidner: both

Harrison Weidner: Uncle

Jack Weidner: awesome.

Harrison Weidner: John. Yeah. Both Uncle John's are

Jack Weidner: Oh,

Harrison Weidner: awesome.

Jack Weidner: my gosh. They're incredible. Just funny in totally different ways.

Harrison Weidner: Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, Johns run how many marathons?

Jack Weidner: Yeah. And

Harrison Weidner: So.

Jack Weidner: I was going to say, you know, you're doing the marathon thing.

Harrison Weidner: Mm hmm. But, yeah, so we're doing 100 push ups a day for however many days or in March. I don't know. 31?

Jack Weidner: 31.

Harrison Weidner: Yeah, 31. I think it'll be good. I already have it set up in my calendar. A recurring task so that I remember to do it.

Jack Weidner: I'm going to see how it goes.

Harrison Weidner: Yeah. It'll be fun. I was going to ask you something, and I don't remember what. I don't know.

Jack Weidner: What's new with

Harrison Weidner: The

Jack Weidner: you?

Harrison Weidner: nothing. I, we were chatting a little earlier about how I just got back from giving campus tours of

Jack Weidner: Know.

Harrison Weidner: the school, and I was talking a little bit about how much I hate admissions events. They're never worthwhile. They're always a waste of people's time. And you just there's so much information gets shared that's unnecessary to share with prospective students. So you can imagine the kind of tour that I run compared to the kind of tours that Admissions wants me to give. And another exciting thing that happened today is I got rejected from Harvard and. That's, you know, like. Okay, sure. I applied to Harvard Medical School and it. I think it's it's it will be fun in my life to be able to say that I was rejected from Harvard Medical School, because I think that that indicates that I was trying for something really hard. And but I also have kind of worked to the capacity to be able to apply to Harvard Medical School, where my chance at admissions was not zero.

Jack Weidner: Yeah. That's exciting.

Harrison Weidner: Yeah.

Jack Weidner: There's a medical school in the Bronx that's just got a huge endowment from a doctor

Harrison Weidner: Yeah,

Jack Weidner: or

Harrison Weidner: I

Jack Weidner: an

Harrison Weidner: saw

Jack Weidner: alum

Harrison Weidner: that.

Jack Weidner: that they're now offering free medical schools.

Harrison Weidner: I think it was like $1,000,000,000.

Jack Weidner: Yeah. It's $1,000,000,000.

Harrison Weidner: There's a lot of money. So I got rejected from Harvard Medical School and I gave

Jack Weidner: Mazel

Harrison Weidner: towards today.

Jack Weidner: tov.

Harrison Weidner: And not much else is going on in my life. Let's. Now that we're 20 minutes into the episode,

Jack Weidner: Yup. Oh, God. Jesus.

Harrison Weidner: let's get into it.

Jack Weidner: Okay.

Harrison Weidner: I wanted to talk to you today about journaling.

Jack Weidner: Yes.

Harrison Weidner: And we talked a lot about my running last week,

Jack Weidner: Yep.

Harrison Weidner: two weeks ago. And I. Even since. Ever since our wildly depressing episode about doom and gloom,

Jack Weidner: Yeah.

Harrison Weidner: I've thought that you and I probably journal differently. And so I just wanted to hear. Surprise, surprise. I wanted to hear about your history with journaling. How you started. What your processes. And then we can go from there.

Jack Weidner: I didn't tell you this over text because I was curious how this was going to go. I don't journal.

Harrison Weidner: Well, what the hell?

Jack Weidner: That's why I was so curious. Like you

Harrison Weidner: I

Jack Weidner: assumed

Harrison Weidner: thought

Jack Weidner: so

Harrison Weidner: you

Jack Weidner: confidently

Harrison Weidner: journaled.

Jack Weidner: that I journal. I write in everything

Harrison Weidner: Okay.

Jack Weidner: all the time.

Harrison Weidner: So.

Jack Weidner: I do not journal.

Harrison Weidner: Do you consider your creative writing a form of journaling?

Jack Weidner: I consider it keeping me. From jumping off a metaphorical cliff. I don't consider it. Journalist.

Harrison Weidner: I'm really surprised you don't journal.

Jack Weidner: Yeah. I mean, I think I guess I'm surprised, too, given how many people journal and how many health benefits there are to it. I'm. Yeah, I'm. That's why I want to talk about this because you think. Why do you think that? I journal. Why are you surprised?

Harrison Weidner: Because

Jack Weidner: I don't know.

Harrison Weidner: you seem like the kind of person who. Correct me if I'm wrong would journal but I what I pictured your journals to be are, you know similar to some creative writing stories that you've done, like

Jack Weidner: Yeah.

Harrison Weidner: writing stories and. And

Jack Weidner: Those

Harrison Weidner: maybe

Jack Weidner: are how

Harrison Weidner: not

Jack Weidner: my notebooks

Harrison Weidner: like.

Jack Weidner: are.

Harrison Weidner: Right. And so are your notebooks, in a way, your journal.

Jack Weidner: Um, I guess. But I don't. I've never once considered them a journal. They were places for ideas and notes throughout a day. And I don't have a singular journal. I have notepads all over my apartment. I have paper on every surface, I have pens in every room, and I have it, including my car. So it's just I just surround myself with notepads, notebooks and paper full of ideas and quotes and drawings and poems and. And. Just this that know, I mean, even if you look through books that I'm reading in a coffee shop, you'll

Harrison Weidner: Mm

Jack Weidner: find

Harrison Weidner: hmm.

Jack Weidner: quotes or little thoughts. But I've never once considered them journals. It was almost when I was in college that was almost like part of just I don't want to say work. But it was part of me trying to become a writer. It was very much just part of like, Oh, I have this thing and this is what I do to create

Harrison Weidner: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. So I have a couple questions off

Jack Weidner: Yeah.

Harrison Weidner: that one. That sounds like an organizational nightmare,

Jack Weidner: It

Harrison Weidner: I'm

Jack Weidner: is.

Harrison Weidner: sure. But how do you manage that and how. How do you think that contributes to what you want to be putting out professionally?

Jack Weidner: It's a little bit chaotic. I think it is chaotic. I don't know if it can contribute to what I want to put out professionally, but it certainly contributes to. How I write and how I. Live a kind of artistic lifestyle where, you know, like, I always have my notebook with me, but

Harrison Weidner: Mm hmm.

Jack Weidner: if it's not right there, what I do is I hold everything that I put in a notebook, a sketch. So it's it's equivalent to me taking a sketch pad somewhere. And a lot of my current journal is a sketch pad.

Harrison Weidner: So you just called it a journal.

Jack Weidner: Well, that's because we're talking about it. I call it my notebook. It's they're all notebooks, even even a pad of paper. And for me, it's all sketches. So I'll have a sketch of a poem or a sketch of an idea, and I'll lay it out, you know. And then for I. I take that. And then I sit, I take it with me and I sit down to write on my laptop, which is where I, I guess if you know, you have the sketch, then you have the final painting.

Harrison Weidner: Mm hmm.

Jack Weidner: The painting happens on my laptop because that's where I work. That's where I write on my desk. And that's where it's a very, you know, I'm channeling. So because I look at ideas as sporadic and I want to just document them so I have them. And then it it's a very quick, you know, it's like it's a very fast thing, these ideas, okay, this is what's going on, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh, and then, okay, so I'm going to sit on that, digest it, and then I'm going to take it to a slower place, which is my laptop.

Harrison Weidner: Okay.

Jack Weidner: For me, I always and I could be wrong here. I always considered journaling. I love just a disclaimer. I love the idea of journaling purely because I love reading famous people's journals because they have some good quotes. And I always wanted to be like, Oh yeah, like I wanted to be like that guy that, like, had some good quotes in his journals, like Teddy Roosevelt when his mother and wife died within like 12 hours of each other. The only entry that day was the light has gone on in my life. Period. Whoa. Incredible. That's.

Harrison Weidner: Yeah.

Jack Weidner: That's poetry. That's beautiful. I don't

Harrison Weidner: What?

Jack Weidner: write down explicitly my self reflections. I think I reflect often in my poems, but

Harrison Weidner: How

Jack Weidner: it's.

Harrison Weidner: often is that deliberate?

Jack Weidner: Never. I don't think.

Harrison Weidner: That's

Jack Weidner: Um.

Harrison Weidner: interesting.

Jack Weidner: I mean, like, I don't want to say never. But my poems are just kind of like what's going on in my life. Okay, let's have some examples.

Harrison Weidner: Yeah.

Jack Weidner: I'm presenting

Harrison Weidner: Hit

Jack Weidner: at a conference.

Harrison Weidner: me.

Jack Weidner: About being a writer from West. From Appalachia. Northern Appalachia. Appalachia. Wherever the hell

Harrison Weidner: We

Jack Weidner: you.

Harrison Weidner: ought to figure out how to say it.

Jack Weidner: I said, Oh, my gosh. Caveat. I had a car. This guy that's running this conference or not running it, but running. Our panel is from New Jersey. Came the college in Appalachia and he said Appalachia. And I said question because I think this is important. Is it Appalachia or Appalachia? And he goes, I think it's a thing of semantics. I said, We're writers. Everything's a matter of semantics. What does that mean? And I was like, If you're from Johnstown, Pennsylvania, you live in Appalachia or Appalachia. And all of my people from southern like south of the Mason-Dixon Line call it Appalachia. And it to me, it's a divide. But like, I think that's important anyways. That's a I was a little annoyed because I was like, I think we should talk about this because I think it's a regional thing, which is what we're talking about.

Harrison Weidner: Mm hmm.

Jack Weidner: But I wrote I, we were talking and. To me. I had said, you know, reading back on poems that I wrote. When I was living there and being from Johnstown, like this idea of trying to get out of Johnstown was very important. And I could see threads of there's a quote about Hemingway that I think I've said it, where this guy in the documentary said, All American writers live with the ghost of Hemingway, and you can either embrace it or you can reject it, but you're responding to that ghost inside of you, of Ernest Hemingway.

Harrison Weidner: Yeah.

Jack Weidner: And I said that looking back on my poetry from that time, it very much reminds me of that, where John's Town, being from a small coal town, is a it's a product. Everywhere I look in my writing because I was responding to it in a different way, but I don't think I was consciously doing that. But going back and analyzing it, I could see that that was a through a through line within a lot of my work. So I think like subconsciously I'm certainly reflect like self reflecting, but I don't know how much I'm doing that consciously.

Harrison Weidner: Huh? Do you think that if you were to sit down and try and journal, that would be a beneficial exercise to you like

Jack Weidner: Well, I

Harrison Weidner: Do.

Jack Weidner: sit down and write.

Harrison Weidner: Okay. And but you said that writing's not typically intentional about what's going on in your life.

Jack Weidner: Here's here's where I stop. Because if you give me 20 minutes,

Harrison Weidner: Mm hmm.

Jack Weidner: I will default to self reflecting in my mind. That's my default. I just don't document. Maybe it would be healthy to document,

Harrison Weidner: I

Jack Weidner: but.

Harrison Weidner: mean, I'm not saying I'm not. I am just surprised that you don't.

Jack Weidner: Yeah. What do you journal for? Let's talk about your journaling because we've talked about me writing.

Harrison Weidner: Yeah, but mine's. Mine's very intentional.

Jack Weidner: That's what I want to talk this.

Harrison Weidner: Like, my journaling practices are very intentional. And, and they've, there have been ebbs and flows of the frequency I'm journaling, but those also go with the periods of my life.

Jack Weidner: Hmm.

Harrison Weidner: Right now, I'm in a practice of waking up every morning looking at my to do list, creating and and drafting my day, and then doing a morning reflection like how I'm feeling about the day, how I'm feeling about how I slept and what I have to look forward to that day. And just like a pulse check on the morning so that I know that I just set my mind straight for the rest of the day. And then at the end of the day, I look, I go back to that same page and this is all in a database, a notion that I have set up. And I reflect on the day and I talk about how I was feeling, things that I feel that I didn't do well, things that I feel that I did well, how my productivity was if I was tired, you know, like just just general feelings throughout the day. So

Jack Weidner: Hmm.

Harrison Weidner: I do that. I just started micro journaling. And this is a practice where you. And I'm doing it to try and get off my phone as much. And so when I feel myself reaching for my phone instead of tapping on Instagram or whatever app it might be, I go to a page again in an ocean document and I just write down how I'm feeling and why I felt the need to reach for my phone in that moment.

Jack Weidner: Mm.

Harrison Weidner: So the last time I did it, I was coming up the elevator from giving these tours and I reached for my phone and it's a good way to mentally catch myself. It's like, Why am I going for that? Why do I need this, like adult pacifier in

Jack Weidner: Okay.

Harrison Weidner: my pocket? And so the Micro Journal is a way for me to write down my feelings so that I can hopefully find patterns in times that I'm reaching for my phone. And if that's necessary, you're not. And 99.9% of the time, it's just involuntary reflex.

Jack Weidner: Mm.

Harrison Weidner: But I enjoy. That I write that down and there's kind of some shame associated with that. When I sit sit down at the end of the day and I look at that log that has the day and the time of when I reach for my phone and why I did it. It's kind of embarrassing. You know, why did I feel the need to reach for my phone in the elevator going up? Why can't I just shut the fuck up and be happy with my life and not. Not try to. Quench my thirst for a small dopamine hit.

Jack Weidner: Well, to be fair, that would be like an addict writing down like, oh, why did you reach for a cigaret right there?

Harrison Weidner: Yeah.

Jack Weidner: Yeah, but, like, that's not

Harrison Weidner: Well.

Jack Weidner: the weakness of the addict. Like, you

Harrison Weidner: No.

Jack Weidner: don't have to be like

Harrison Weidner: No.

Jack Weidner: Ben Stiller

Harrison Weidner: Right.

Jack Weidner: at the end of dodgeball, like,

Harrison Weidner: But

Jack Weidner: looking at a piece

Harrison Weidner: I

Jack Weidner: of pizza.

Harrison Weidner: mean, sure. Like, technology addiction is bad, but there's. And sure, you crave that dopamine hit, but it's not like craving nicotine. You know, it's it's a little different.

Jack Weidner: Um, I don't know if they're finalized on the science of what that's like. I think we're still finding that out. It's a different kind of addiction, certainly.

Harrison Weidner: Yeah.

Jack Weidner: But there there's a I know they're doing a lot of stuff. I'm sure, you know, they're doing a lot of studies on that

Harrison Weidner: Yeah.

Jack Weidner: right now.

Harrison Weidner: I'm trying to be on my phone. Less so.

Jack Weidner: No,

Harrison Weidner: I'm journaling

Jack Weidner: I think that's

Harrison Weidner: in the

Jack Weidner: great.

Harrison Weidner: air. I'm

Jack Weidner: There's

Harrison Weidner: journaling

Jack Weidner: this.

Harrison Weidner: in the morning.

Jack Weidner: What's interesting to me that you say that is I'm reading this book called Make Mindfulness. It was recommended by a friend.

Harrison Weidner: Mm hmm. You brought this up last.

Jack Weidner: What?

Harrison Weidner: You brought this up last time.

Jack Weidner: Yeah. And he was essentially saying it's about how mindfulness became a capitalistic venture

Harrison Weidner: Mm hmm.

Jack Weidner: and how we've kind of stripped mindfulness of its, you know, roots. And we now say. In this world, there are practices that can help you live in it, and if you're not happy, that's your fault. There's a mental thing. And he's like, What that doesn't do is address the outside problems. And I while I think it is important. I think mindfulness is really important and has got me thinking. It's like. When we say like you said, you said, why can't I just be happy? And to me, I think that there is some personal responsibility there. But there's also a lot of factors outside of you that contribute to you not being happy. And and the point in this book is like, is mindfulness just helping us cope with very unhealthy? Stimulation in our life, you know, whether that be capitalism, inequality, whatever that is.

Harrison Weidner: Mm hmm.

Jack Weidner: And is mindfulness just a way of us being like, yeah, everything is fine and just making us. Accepting of what's going on rather than promoting us to do that extra layer of reflection where we say, actually, this isn't how it should be. It's like. So so, you know, we reflect on inequality. And we learn to be at peace with the inequality that exists in the world, but is truly the root of mindfulness or the root of the meditative practice in Buddhism. To use that to analyze what inequality is and then take an active stance in using that knowledge of like how you can go and then further prevent it, not just allowing yourself to be at peace with inequality, but making yourself a like to an agent of change in the world.

Harrison Weidner: So I saw what just happened there. Something interesting just happened.

Jack Weidner: Okay.

Harrison Weidner: And this happens a lot on this podcast. But. You and I are talking about something that's very personal,

Jack Weidner: Yeah.

Harrison Weidner: like journaling and journaling about your day.

Jack Weidner: Right.

Harrison Weidner: And you just elevated it to a very population level thing

Jack Weidner: Yeah.

Harrison Weidner: and a communal level thing. And I get it. I do. But. Sometimes I think it's beneficial to think about your day and and not have to think about that inequality or the larger machine behind

Jack Weidner: Oh,

Harrison Weidner: things,

Jack Weidner: sure.

Harrison Weidner: you know? So

Jack Weidner: Okay. Well, I was using. I

Harrison Weidner: why

Jack Weidner: was.

Harrison Weidner: don't. Yeah, why don't you bring that back? I want that example, but on a very personal level.

Jack Weidner: Okay. You have a problem with your phone? You're addicted to your phone. I'm addicted to my phone. You're using mindfulness to say, how do I become less addicted to my phone? This is a me problem, right?

Harrison Weidner: Yeah.

Jack Weidner: You're. You're turning it inward on me. Why am I not happy? And

Harrison Weidner: Well, it's

Jack Weidner: I.

Harrison Weidner: not that I'm not happy. I want to.

Jack Weidner: Right.

Harrison Weidner: I'm

Jack Weidner: Okay.

Harrison Weidner: very

Jack Weidner: Sorry,

Harrison Weidner: happy.

Jack Weidner: sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, guys. You said.

Harrison Weidner: Just

Jack Weidner: You

Harrison Weidner: disclaimer.

Jack Weidner: said, like,

Harrison Weidner: I'm

Jack Weidner: why

Harrison Weidner: very

Jack Weidner: can't

Harrison Weidner: happy.

Jack Weidner: I just be happy

Harrison Weidner: Yeah,

Jack Weidner: in the moment

Harrison Weidner: I did

Jack Weidner: for

Harrison Weidner: say

Jack Weidner: a second?

Harrison Weidner: that. But you know what? It.

Jack Weidner: Yeah. Okay. And you know what I mean. So. So this idea of mine, you know, so, like I'm saying. How to using mindfulness to become content with being like trying to make yourself a little bit less addicted to your phone. See, I'm trying not to sound like an asshole. Essentially, his point in this book is we've taken mindfulness and made it all about me. That's what he says. We've taken it and made it individualistic because that's what he says capitalism does to things instead of what mindfulness was, which was a very communal practice of accepting and thinking about the wellness of all other beings and the connectedness of life. Do you understand what I'm saying?

Harrison Weidner: Yeah.

Jack Weidner: So. So what you called me out on is the very nature of what this book is. Tweet, not rejecting, but pointing out.

Harrison Weidner: Okay. Okay. I

Jack Weidner: I'm

Harrison Weidner: see.

Jack Weidner: not saying I think everyone should reflect on their day, but what he's saying is, where do you run this line of like what's mindfulness and what's just a practice in self-discipline? Like, is journal. Like, you know, like.

Harrison Weidner: I

Jack Weidner: What's.

Harrison Weidner: mean, I think those can be one in the same. Why not?

Jack Weidner: Exactly. But it's it's this idea of like we use in in like internal peace meditation, like we're using all these things and they can be very good. But like the, the roots of the practice I think could do, like the world could do a lot of good if we acknowledge both of those things. Like there's a personal aspect to it and then there is a communal aspect.

Harrison Weidner: Yeah. I mean, I. I am not going to sit down. To reflect on my day and start thinking about capitalism.

Jack Weidner: And I do. Which is

Harrison Weidner: Right.

Jack Weidner: why I don't, General.

Harrison Weidner: Yeah. I mean, do you think and this is just a real question that I'm asking, do you think you're doing that as a way to distract and escape from your life?

Jack Weidner: No,

Harrison Weidner: You know,

Jack Weidner: because I.

Harrison Weidner: you would rather think about. Beyond beyond your your day to day.

Jack Weidner: I think

Harrison Weidner: And

Jack Weidner: this

Harrison Weidner: Blaine.

Jack Weidner: is a really interesting. Difference between you and I

Harrison Weidner: Mm

Jack Weidner: where

Harrison Weidner: hmm.

Jack Weidner: I think you understand. This. This is like a surface level thing. I think like if people were just listening to the podcast, they would assume, I think your practice of isolation, journaling, meaning you just journaling about your day. I think it would be easy for me to say that is selfish. And you to say me journaling in a global sense is. Me running away from not wanting to deal with my own internal problems. Okay. So that's surface level, I think. Right.

Harrison Weidner: Mm hmm.

Jack Weidner: And I challenge that immensely because I think. The root of all of this is where you and I build our perception of the world. I think you very much are center out. What can I control? So you control your day, right?

Harrison Weidner: Yeah.

Jack Weidner: Okay. I think I look at. Myself in a bigger mechanism. So when I say like we just keep it in capitalism, it doesn't always have to be capitalism.

Harrison Weidner: Well, you usually bring it back to capitalism, so.

Jack Weidner: Capitalism is a big thing in this society. Like, we don't we can't we don't all have to pretend like capitalism is a fucking thing that impacts our day to day anyways. So capitalism. I think of capitalism. Because I think of. How it impacts me. So I start with capitalism and I go down, okay, I don't like capitalism. Let's talk about I've been thinking a lot about nationalism. I actually just contacted our high school history teacher for his PowerPoints on the rise of nationalism in Europe.

Harrison Weidner: Gujarat.

Jack Weidner: So nationalism? Yeah, we start with nationalism. I don't like nationalism. I reflect on why don't I like nationalism? What aspects of nationalism don't I like? And then I talk about the I see the rise of nationalism. I

Harrison Weidner: It's.

Jack Weidner: want to learn about that. And then I think about me as a human being. How do I. Okay. So I don't like this larger concept. And then I hit me. What am I doing in my life to change how that works? Capitalism. I don't like capitalism. Where does it? I'm obsessed with these root causes. Right? Like you and I have talked about this a million times. I proposed the hypothetical to you one time. What if human beings came from not a nonhierarchical society? What if we came from herbivores or like a species and we evolved from that? How does that change? And you're like, That doesn't matter. I don't even know if you remember this conversation, but I propose

Harrison Weidner: Yeah.

Jack Weidner: this.

Harrison Weidner: We were in a car driving somewhere.

Jack Weidner: Yeah. And you said that doesn't matter because it did happen. I said, but. I am now at a wheat like were at a point where we could think about how would that change and then how can I act that that is how I want it to change. I

Harrison Weidner: Mm

Jack Weidner: think

Harrison Weidner: hmm.

Jack Weidner: about ecology. So there's this idea that sharks are back on Cape Cod or I read that book about beavers and I've told you this before.

Harrison Weidner: Yeah.

Jack Weidner: So beavers change the landscape. There are sharks on Cape Cod. I love swimming in the ocean. But it's good that there are sharks back in an ecosystem. Okay, so I'm thinking about that on an abstract level. Then I turn inward and I say, okay, this is a problem of mine that I need to now accept that I live in a world where my relationship with the ocean has changed. How do I make that positive? So I start out here and I get in here. Whereas you I think correct me if I'm wrong, start in here. And you know, with your solid foundation, you are going to be a mechanism of change in the world. So you

Harrison Weidner: Right.

Jack Weidner: reflect from it. So I

Harrison Weidner: Yeah.

Jack Weidner: hate. Yeah.

Harrison Weidner: I

Jack Weidner: Like

Harrison Weidner: mean, and

Jack Weidner: I don't.

Harrison Weidner: my perspective comes, you know, a lot from Stoicism and like Epictetus.

Jack Weidner: Yes, 100%.

Harrison Weidner: But, but I'm going to steer this back to

Jack Weidner: Yeah.

Harrison Weidner: how are you reflecting on those things? Are you writing these down or are you just sitting around and, you know, not to say just sitting around thinking about is this is this a thought experiment or is this a physical activity? Where you're writing down these thoughts

Jack Weidner: This

Harrison Weidner: and

Jack Weidner: is

Harrison Weidner: doing

Jack Weidner: another

Harrison Weidner: something.

Jack Weidner: fun thing that I think is so I've I've been thinking a lot about how you and I have these conversations. And I think

Harrison Weidner: We're.

Jack Weidner: for me, it is a I'm sitting around and thinking.

Harrison Weidner: Hmm.

Jack Weidner: But that is not that doesn't mean it's not action based. That means I look at every time I sit around and think that changes how I. I hope that it changes how I interact with the next, you know, five people or, you know, so like I am thinking about it. But the act of thinking about it, I hope, changes my action later. I can be reflective and passive, and I hope that that changes action because I don't look at things in isolation. I find that very hard. You're incredibly good at compartmentalizing. Journaling time is journaling time. Action time is action time. And it's all you know, there's like, purposeful and it's, you know, productive.

Harrison Weidner: Yeah. There's deliberate re bleed between between those activities.

Jack Weidner: Right. And my bleed is not deliberate. My guy, like my mind, had a compound fracture and the bleeding is just everywhere and I can't control it. But what I try to do is understand that web of chaos and I try to make sense of it.

Harrison Weidner: But what I'm what I'm trying to get at

Jack Weidner: Yeah.

Harrison Weidner: is would you see the benefit in writing these things down?

Jack Weidner: I think it would be the same for me. I don't think I'd change my way of life just because I started journaling. And writing things down. I

Harrison Weidner: Yeah.

Jack Weidner: think I

Harrison Weidner: I

Jack Weidner: do.

Harrison Weidner: mean, I,

Jack Weidner: Yeah.

Harrison Weidner: I derive tremendous value from reading through my past writings.

Jack Weidner: Yeah.

Harrison Weidner: You know, I have a function on my journal that pulls up what happened the day of. Years ago. And this goes back to senior year of high school. And I, I get a lot of value from that and seeing how my thought processes have changed and, and how I've changed over the years and what I was thinking. And then I can go plus or minus a couple of days and see what was happening in my life at that point. That caused me to think that.

Jack Weidner: I don't I just don't feel the need to have that extreme detail to it. I can look back at some of my writings and say, Oh, that was an interesting thought. Or I go back and I look at how my poetry has changed, and

Harrison Weidner: Mm

Jack Weidner: I think

Harrison Weidner: hmm.

Jack Weidner: that that's interesting. But I just don't feel the need to have that systematic approach to it.

Harrison Weidner: You just don't

Jack Weidner: For

Harrison Weidner: want that

Jack Weidner: me.

Harrison Weidner: paper trail.

Jack Weidner: I think, yeah, I have the paper trail, but I. But I don't need it to be that systematic.

Harrison Weidner: I mean, I'm not sure how much value I get out of it in like 30 years, but I think in 30 years, if I were to say what happened on March 4th or March 1st, 2024, like, I'll have that information and I'll be able to understand

Jack Weidner: Yeah.

Harrison Weidner: what I'm feeling in the very last semester of graduate school.

Jack Weidner: You see,

Harrison Weidner: And

Jack Weidner: I don't

Harrison Weidner: I, I

Jack Weidner: want to know if I

Harrison Weidner: that

Jack Weidner: care about

Harrison Weidner: excites

Jack Weidner: that.

Harrison Weidner: me. Hmm.

Jack Weidner: Yeah.

Harrison Weidner: You seem. That's why I'm so surprised.

Jack Weidner: Well, it's

Harrison Weidner: Because

Jack Weidner: not

Harrison Weidner: I

Jack Weidner: to

Harrison Weidner: feel

Jack Weidner: say.

Harrison Weidner: like you would care about that.

Jack Weidner: No. I mean, it's not to say that I don't care how I feel right now and I don't care how I feel in the past. I think. Yeah. I don't know why that that's not as important to me to know how I felt on March 1st. Again, I think it's fascinating to read people's journals and letters. And I do keep a lot of paper. Obviously, I just don't feel the religious need to have. A systematic approach. Times of forced self-reflection. I have times of forced writing, but I think for the health of myself and for the people around me. My writing should not always be incredibly self-reflective because. I think the act of writing for me is more than a self-help thing. It does help me. It is. I think I write because that is who I am. But it's not. I don't. There needs to be some distance between things that I write and myself sometimes. Sometimes I write very personal poems, but sometimes I don't. And I think that that's all good. I try to look at it more as an organic process. I

Harrison Weidner: It's

Jack Weidner: think

Harrison Weidner: like a physical

Jack Weidner: it.

Harrison Weidner: manifestation of your inability to compartmentalize.

Jack Weidner: Yeah, exactly. I mean, you should see I have a journal next to my bed and I like awake. Wake up at night and write these ideas, and then I'll carry the ideas as I'm, you know, making my coffee. And I'll continue that idea on a notepad in my kitchen. It sounds psychotic. I'm not saying it's not. I'm just saying that's how I do it.

Harrison Weidner: Hmm.

Jack Weidner: Now you've started getting into, like grading your moods and stuff. Yes.

Harrison Weidner: Yeah. But that just that that adds a quantitative aspect that I enjoy.

Jack Weidner: What? What about the quantitative aspect to you like or what benefit do you see? Like, teach me. Like what benefit

Harrison Weidner: I don't know. I

Jack Weidner: you

Harrison Weidner: don't

Jack Weidner: think?

Harrison Weidner: know that I see a realized benefit yet. I only have in that I only have about 100. Data points on that. So

Jack Weidner: Well, just

Harrison Weidner: have only

Jack Weidner: being

Harrison Weidner: been

Jack Weidner: able

Harrison Weidner: doing

Jack Weidner: to

Harrison Weidner: it for 100

Jack Weidner: know

Harrison Weidner: days.

Jack Weidner: what you were thinking on March 1st.

Harrison Weidner: Yeah.

Jack Weidner: Yeah. So, like

Harrison Weidner: I

Jack Weidner: what?

Harrison Weidner: mean, so I, I appreciate the fact that I keep these these logs in these journals because, well, it was incredibly helpful when I was applying for medical school I could look back on certain days when something, you know, say would have happened. And that just increases my ability to be reflective in that moment. Um. What else was I saying? Why do I? Why do I, like, give my days numbers and apply values to these things?

Jack Weidner: I mean. Yeah, I'm just. Anything you want to, like, teach me about your process? Teach me what you like about your process of journaling.

Harrison Weidner: I think that the process of journaling for me. Keeps me incredibly grounded and provides a space where I can. Reflect on the events of the day and how I acted and how I want to be better. And it's it really is self-improvement for me and remembering that I will not always do the best thing.

Jack Weidner: The.

Harrison Weidner: But if I have something that I've written down that I'm not so proud of, how can I improve and use that to improve the next time? So like, it's a it's a good way for me to practice patience and. Dividing my life into the two spheres of what I can control and what I can control.

Jack Weidner: And.

Harrison Weidner: So and it helps me prioritize my actions. Like I an example, like I have my journal right here, and I just wrote a page on a spy in your house.

Jack Weidner: Oh, cool.

Harrison Weidner: And and I thought that that was a meaningful entry because I had a lot of emotions about selling the house and

Jack Weidner: Yeah.

Harrison Weidner: us moving out of our childhood home. And that was just a really good space for me to reflect on it. And so maybe the next time that I'm faced with a big move in my life or a big change like buying a house and doing that, I can go back to that page and say, This is how I was feeling about the first time. How how can I learn from that? How can I how have I changed? How is my mindset changed? I think that. Allows for a lot of growth. It's it for me. It gives me peace. Amidst the external chaos.

Jack Weidner: I think that's easy for me as well as you to be like, Oh yeah, this is just like a way that I can track myself and my personal growth. But for you, I think I think it is more than that because I think I can see a lot of benefit that I don't get, which is you're very I think you try your best to be objective with yourself. And I think in your journaling, I think you are objective and that's something that I am often not

Harrison Weidner: Objective

Jack Weidner: and I

Harrison Weidner: with

Jack Weidner: think

Harrison Weidner: yourself.

Jack Weidner: objective with myself. And I know

Harrison Weidner: Yeah.

Jack Weidner: that you can be, but I think you are definitely you definitely try to be honest and you're very fair how that not objective fair with yourself where you have your accomplishments you have your shortcomings and you very accurately go through those. And I think that that gives you that that's very healthy. I'm not like that where I focus a lot on my bad. I don't focus any on my good. And I think if I were to write down some good or what I was thankful for, that would probably be very healthy for me.

Harrison Weidner: Mm hmm. I, I look at it in a way of, like, if you're not honest with yourself in your journal, what the fuck are you doing?

Jack Weidner: Yeah.

Harrison Weidner: You know, you have to be honest with yourself before you can be honest to other people.

Jack Weidner: that's probably good. I'm, like, reading back through this. I think I've written all these down at this point. These poems. My one of my favorite, I wrote. I was sitting having coffee in a cafe in the gallery and I read it says to the businessmen conducting a business meeting in this non business place. And that was the title and I just

Harrison Weidner: Name.

Jack Weidner: wrote down with a period

Harrison Weidner: Why?

Jack Weidner: because it was so annoying

Harrison Weidner: This.

Jack Weidner: because we're like in this frickin cafe and these people are talking and they're like, you know, we want to increase our capability and, you know, like permeate and, you know, like all the stupid. Deliverables and blah blah blah. I'm like, Is no place sacred? This is an art museum. Leave.

Harrison Weidner: Yeah. You want to roll us out, or do you

Jack Weidner: Yeah.

Harrison Weidner: have anything? I mean.

Jack Weidner: No, I don't. I'm curious. I don't really know. I don't know. Yeah, this is this just. This whole thing got me thinking. Surprisingly, no one freaked out jacks thinking about stuff. Oh, thank you so much for joining us for this episode. If you have any fun journal prompts that you like Jack, we'll try them and maybe read them publicly to shame himself on line on the next episode. Email us at our tangled minds at

Harrison Weidner: He

Jack Weidner: gmail.com.

Harrison Weidner: won't do that.

Jack Weidner: Well, we'll see. You know, I think just to sum up this episode, I think that's the difference between you and me in

Harrison Weidner: Huh?

Jack Weidner: journaling. Your journals are very private. Your emotions are very private.

Harrison Weidner: Yeah.

Jack Weidner: Mine are not. I cannot hide my emotions. I'm a very emotional person. My emotions, I contribute them a lot to my success as a writer. And being in tune with mine and I try to be in tune with other people's emotions. I think that's the biggest thing. So like, if I write something, yeah, if I'm proud of it, I'll share it and I will go. I will turn over corners of my heart to connect with other people, because that's what I think writing does. So if I'm going to write with other people, I want to connect with them. I don't need to connect with myself. And I think that might be the difference.

Harrison Weidner: I see value in connecting with yourselves.

Jack Weidner: Yeah. No, no. I'm just saying, writing is not my way of connecting with myself. Writing is after I have processed things and connected with myself. But I want. Then I want to connect with other people. I don't want to let them know I'm not alone or they're not alone or I'm not alone. So

Jack Weidner: that is an interesting thing, what we're comfortable sharing. So if you have any journalist prompts emails that article mines that you are. Thank you so much for sticking around and seeing how this mess unravels. We'll see in two weeks.

Harrison Weidner: All right,